Over the weekend BB's grandparent's came to visit us for a nice vacation.
Yesterday, BB's grandfather pulled BB aside and gave BB a $50 bill and a newsletter. He told BB to invest in a government gas rebate program and that he would get $300 every month if he signed up. (Or something like that- this is second hand information as I was busy in another room and never saw any of it.) BB just shows me the newsletter and money this morning and tells me his grandfather gave us a great tax break tip.
I took the newsletter to work to read it, and because I was too lazy to even open the 16 pg document I went straight to the CPA in our office asking if he has heard of a tax rebate on gas. The CPA has not heard of it and asked to see the newsletter.
Immediately there are alarming headlines in it... "The Best Kept Secret in this $1.6 Trillion Dollar Industry"..."Collect Fat Monthly Checks Thanks to the Government"..."How You Can Start Receiving Your Extra 3 Checks Every Month." ...with graphs and so so many propaganda paragraphs from "quotes" from current members who talk about retiring early and doubling portfolio's to talk of "$126,850% Gains...on This Global Retail Giant."
I look The Oxford Club up online and there are alot of personal opinions on forums that it is a scam, and there are a lot of personal talk on forums that it is a legitimate investors club. (I know that scammers will pose as legitimate members to improve their credibility.) It is NOT listed in "rip off report" as a scam.
I think it is a Ponzi scheme of some sort. I think I will send in my $50 for a membership and receive a booklet of what "Gas" companies to invest in and I will invest into a Ponzi scheme.
Here's the kicker: I told BB all this and he goes: "So what it if it is a scheme? We send in $50 and invest some money and get a check for $300? We just made huge returns! Why not do it?"
I responded: "Because they only give you those returns upfront- then they disapear and you never get any more checks."
BB said: "So what? We still made a ton of money even if we only get one check. What is the harm?"
I said: "Because then they give you a huge return so you will take all that return and also more of your own money to get more shares. It's not a big deal sending them $50, but then after we get a check we will want to send them $500. And we may never hear from them again."
BB then tells me "Ohhh...I see. Ok, well how about we just do it this one time for the big upfront return and then never again?"
How do I argue with that logic? It almost makes sense!
Anyways, BB can do it if he wants to use his grandfathers $50 that way. Although I think the $50 is only a membership fee and then we need to actually invest in the stocks they suggest.
My concerns are: I assume that BB's grandfather has been doing this for 2 months. The newsletter is dated September 15, 2009. I am scared about how much the grandfather has invested in this club. He told both BB and BB's father to invest in it and is a big believer in it. The grandfather is a big stock market believer and has always put his earnings into the market with careful consideration and precision. Over the course of his life, while working as a telephone operator for his whole life, BB's grandfather has managed to earn somewhere (family guestimates) in the million dollar or more range from the stock market. The whole family trusts the grandfathers judgement when it comes to stocks. I am concerned that this club could end up taking advantage of the whole family when it stops returning dividends.
I am concerned because there are a few financial advisors "quoted" in this newsletter about advising clients to use this club. I have a financial advisor...I am frightened that financial advisors could fall into this trap without their clients even knowing what is going on. I know it happened with Madoff...I worry it would happen to my financial advisor. Is there a way I can upfront tell my advisor that I do not want my money invested in a "too good to be true" fashion? Even if he becomes a believer in whatever program he gets swept up in? Or am I just at the mercy of his judgement?
I am grateful that the Bernie Madoff thing was such a huge newsbreaking story. I had previously never heard of a ponzi scheme and otherwise probably would have invested in this club and then REALLY invested in this club when I saw the returns.
So...anybody using The Oxford Club? If I get a positive response from a long term member of this forum- I give that responce a lot more credibility than any of the online searches and "quotes" from this newsletter. Should I even do it BB's way and invest an initial amount for a big upfront payoff then stop using the service? How can BB or his father break it to the grandfather that this is most likely a scam without crushing the grandfather's ego?
The Oxford Club...investment club?? or Scam?
November 16th, 2009 at 03:49 pm
November 16th, 2009 at 04:10 pm 1258387844
But you'll keep doing it because your computer or company letter says you have X shares. And even if they don't pay you anything, even $5 would validate their technique, so they'll keep pushing the scheme towards more and more people.
The logical question shouldn't be, "It's not a lot of money, so what have you got to lose?" The logical question should be, "It's a ponzi scheme, so why would I want to validate and encourage their illegal business practices?"
As for him grandfather? Were it up to me, I would gently but plainly break it to him. He needs to know, but no matter how you say it, it's not going to take the sting and shame away. So, you might as well shoot straight and fast, but still as gently as you can.
November 16th, 2009 at 04:18 pm 1258388281
November 16th, 2009 at 04:18 pm 1258388285
November 16th, 2009 at 04:22 pm 1258388573
As a CPA, I can't really give investment advice, but this is where I draw the line. I always voice my opinion on scammy things. If you had come to me, I'd ask if you were crazy.
Or maybe it doesn't matter. I have a handful of clients who constantly fall for these schemes and will never learn. SOrry to say, this can't be the first "scam" Grandpa has fallen for. Certain people are just very gullible. PEople either tend to fall for these things and never learn, or never fall for them in the first place. (Though we did have a "smart" client lose a hefty six figure sum in a Ponzi scheme recently - it happens. But usually I am telling the same person over and over that they shouldn't believe everything they hear).
Grandpa will probably have to learn the hard way - I doubt he'd listen. Though if you warn him and he gets burned, he may trust you in the future.
November 16th, 2009 at 04:25 pm 1258388758
November 16th, 2009 at 04:34 pm 1258389299
November 16th, 2009 at 05:42 pm 1258393321
I feel sorry for people, especially trusting older folks, who fall for this type of thing. The power of advertising seduces many a person to part with their common sense and their cents!!
November 16th, 2009 at 05:45 pm 1258393514
As for this, if it has such stellar returns why would you offer people to join the club. 1 month 50 = 300, 2nd month 300 = 1,800, 3rd month 1,800 = 10,800, 4th month = 64,800; 5 th month 64,800 = 388,800; 6th month 388,800 = $2.3 million.
Do you think that there is anyway $50 can be turned into $2.3 million in six months?
when people promise easy money, I run. It's hard to be taken by a scam if you aren't greedy.
November 16th, 2009 at 06:07 pm 1258394866
These are just Canadian Income Trusts or Canadian Royalty Trusts like HTE and PWE. Canadian tax laws are set to change in 2011 so the pass through income will not be tax free.
November 16th, 2009 at 06:18 pm 1258395531
Out of respect and caring, I too would warn him about it, but make sure to let him make the final decision about what to do. No matter what it is, once that decision is made, I would just respect it and move on with your life.
Good luck!
November 17th, 2009 at 03:05 am 1258427123
are they just leeching money through a tax loophole? are they ripping someone else off down the line?
who is really affected by this?
if it turns out to be a true investment possibility; does that neccesarily mean it's good for everyone?
November 17th, 2009 at 04:52 am 1258433535
November 21st, 2009 at 02:21 am 1258770092
Jerry
November 24th, 2009 at 09:43 pm 1259099000
November 30th, 2009 at 06:21 pm 1259605309
January 27th, 2010 at 10:17 pm 1264630655
February 10th, 2010 at 01:39 pm 1265809171
February 24th, 2010 at 02:46 pm 1267022798
The way the membership works is that they sign you up and they send out monthly newsletters along with periodic "action alerts" where they give people advice on investment opportunities all over the world. They get their advice legitimately through people whom they employ in a consulting capacity, and they carefully structure their investments so that people are getting in early on some investments where the cost is low and the rewards high or, at the very least, losses are very low.
Not necessarily penny stocks, but sometimes close to it. It's very easy to say you helped someone get a 300% return if they invested $100 and wound up earning $400, right? Still, though, it allows people to make some investments and if they want to invest more they can.
The secret is that they do these mass mailings every month to keep an active membership role. They have it down to a science. They know that if they send out 150,000 letters, they'll get, for example, 4% of that in new members. They break even at 2%, so the rest means they are increasing club revenues.
But long story short, it's legit, just not what you might call "high powered." They do help members earn some revenues and protect assets they might already have through advice which comes through the club's investment consultants. As you know, with tax codes being so complicated, they can dole out some pretty useful advice and help people in general because most people (including myself) don't know how to invest.
And I believe you can even write in with questions and they will give advice back. The key is, it's your money you invest, you give them nothing. They're not interested in investing for you, they want you to subscribe. And if it doesn't work out, you can cancel.
Hope that helps.
FYI - I'm protecting my identity because I still work in the financial industry and don't want to burn any bridges with my old company.
June 4th, 2010 at 05:28 pm 1275668885
June 17th, 2010 at 03:10 am 1276740656
October 20th, 2010 at 06:54 am 1287554072
November 19th, 2010 at 05:13 pm 1290186832
February 21st, 2011 at 09:32 pm 1298323970
February 25th, 2011 at 01:14 am 1298596454
March 25th, 2011 at 12:08 am 1301011716
June 8th, 2011 at 02:23 am 1307496237
June 16th, 2011 at 01:30 am 1308184200
Thanks
Tasma Royce
July 5th, 2011 at 06:09 am 1309842572
This is their note on their Dec 2010 'Communique':
Dear Member,Looking back, 2010 has been another great year for Oxford Club members.
There have been bumps along the way, of course. But we got the big picture right. And made buckets of money as a result.
(Even Peter Brimelow of the independent Hulbert Financial Digest
wrote a recent column on MarketWatch citing The Oxford Club’s “dramatically successful” long-term track record.) (Now that's independent testimony of one who looks at ALL financial newsletters. This is very legit--and I'm making money on a monthly basis.
October 22nd, 2011 at 01:31 pm 1319286702
November 24th, 2011 at 08:27 pm 1322166423
March 16th, 2012 at 05:26 pm 1331918766
May 7th, 2012 at 11:08 am 1336385286
June 23rd, 2012 at 07:11 pm 1340475071
March 9th, 2013 at 11:04 pm 1362870240
March 10th, 2013 at 12:13 pm 1362917620
June 30th, 2013 at 01:53 pm 1372596783
July 30th, 2013 at 11:46 pm 1375224363
August 8th, 2013 at 06:08 pm 1375981733
It is a very legitimate company that honors its guarantee, tries to make its members as happy as possible while also helping them to become as rich as possible.
Hope this has some sort of positive impact on your feelings about The Oxford Club.
August 31st, 2013 at 02:22 pm 1377955343
bond picks. I put a lot of money in EIX a utility on the west coast.
I purchased the bonds on their recommendation, they gave false info
that the bonds were tied to the stock...Wrong, and the bonds stopped
paying the interest.
November 27th, 2013 at 05:18 pm 1385572720
Want me to see you as trustworthy? Get to the point, and value my time. Scammers rarely do either.
December 3rd, 2013 at 07:51 pm 1386100302
December 29th, 2013 at 05:20 pm 1388337632