I'm going to bring up a topic that -well-I have never come across publicly discussed on a personal level. This topic seems to be more harshly judged than sex and only seems to be discussed between close friends for only a few minutes. When this topic is verbally discussed, voices lower, and suddenly it sounds like you are discussing the death of a loved one.
It's a mix of planning the wedding and watching Suze Orman that reminded me I still gotta get it done. (So you all know where I stand on the issue)
Pre-nups. What do you think? Better question, what do you have? I am thinking alot of people advise others to get pre-nups when they themselves dont have one.
I have privately given this topic alot of thought. I am for it. For me. Now there are alot of pros and cons here. So I dont think there is a universal law applying to all people. Here is my reasoning, next I want to hear yours.
I have never been married or divorced. I dont know how I would react in a divorce, but can't believe I would not act emotionally, rather than logically. I might try and take the man for all he is worth. I might drag out a divorce to make him suffer. I dont know. I have seen it happen. Why would I think I am above that, when others have behaved this way?
Now you will ask why I am thinking I might get a divorce when I am planning a wedding. But I'm trying to be practical. If over 50% of marriages end in divorce, I truly dont think those couples planned to get a divorce either. They were equally or more in love than I am. I think it's very arrogant of me to assume my marriage will last when 50% of others dont.
I have some assets to protect, but when Baseball boy and I agreed to a pre- nup (my idea) he had the earning potential to just slaughter any income I ever make. I wanted to protect him. From me. From a revengeful, spiteful version of me. I wanted to plan the 'divorce' when we were in love, so we would agree on a fair division, and think this through rationally.
Baseball boy was initially against it. But could not really express why. So after he got used to the idea he agreed to it. But he doesnt like to talk about it. Planning "it" (I dont even like saying the word publicly myself) has fallen on my shoulders. Baseball boy is still uncomfortable with it and just tries to get out of the conversation ASAP whenever I bring it up.
So, pre-nuptial agreements, anyone want to open this pandoras box with me?
I'm going to go ahead and potentially get publicly slammed for this opinion...
July 9th, 2008 at 02:21 am
July 9th, 2008 at 02:51 am 1215568260
July 9th, 2008 at 02:53 am 1215568396
If you an average joe but do have the potential to earn a LOT of money they could be a good thing.
Some courts will through out a prenup because it wasn't fair or some other loop hole
That being said DH and I don't have one even though I do stand to get a large inheritance (if things remain the same) when my dad passes away. Not banking on that but it will be hard to share with him.
July 9th, 2008 at 03:02 am 1215568968
My uncle and his now ex-wife's divorce falls clearly in the first category. It took over 3 YEARS for their divorce to be finalized. With them, it was a pretty clear cut case of adultery on my ex-aunt's part. In one of their final hearings, she tried to get the BMW by saying that her car was falling apart. My uncle then produced pictures of a new corvette - which she owned. The saddest part of the whole mess are their two kids and how topsy turvy their life has been.
My parent's divorce falls into the second category. My dad's attitude was basically, if it can be replaced with a check, why fight it? The funny thing is, he has ended up getting back most of what he let my mom have in the first place - as she's moved to various places, then remarried. (I also got some furniture upgrades in the process.)
I'm not married, never have been, but hope to some day. At one time I would have been strongly on the side of NO WAY NEVER regarding pre-nups. But the more I've seen of this world, the more I've seen of how people you think you know VERY well, can change in an instant . . . the more I've come to think that a pre-nup isn't a bad idea. If I ever marry, I plan on going into it with the word "divorce" not even in my vocabulary -- but . . . a pre-nup is kind of an insurance policy like disability insurance. Something you hope never happens, but will be awfully darn glad to have if it does.
July 9th, 2008 at 03:16 am 1215569802
July 9th, 2008 at 03:57 am 1215572278
July 9th, 2008 at 03:59 am 1215572345
BF & I won't have a pre-nup, mostly because I just have an "all-or-nothing" mentality about marriage I guess. I just feel like if I am preparing for the possibility of a divorce, then I'm not really ready to get married. (I'm not saying that is the case with you guys - just us personally.)
I also think a pre-nup kind of undermines some of the basic aspects of marriage. I mean, it's supposed to be two people coming together and sharing life as one. You are supposed to trust each other, work through hard times, and come out of everything together... even if nothing else works out. Of course, that is the ideal marriage, I know it doesn't always work out that way.
We also won't have a pre-nup because neither one of us really has assets to out-weigh the other's. I guess if you are a millionaire, and want to know if the person you've been dating for 6 months just wants your money, then a pre-nup is essential.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:16 am 1215573400
July 9th, 2008 at 04:18 am 1215573538
Just my two cents. No opinion on the pre-nup except don't be over-generous.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:22 am 1215573737
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1386478/posts
July 9th, 2008 at 04:24 am 1215573865
July 9th, 2008 at 04:26 am 1215573985
You need a heart to heart chat. A pre-nup is a good idea, I think. I have a friend whose husband just left her (after 25 years---she thought her life was so secure!) and she is getting practically nothing. He schemed a little ahead of time and rearranged his retirement, etc. to work in his favor in a settlement. She worked, stayed home with the kids, got screwed.
No, not that it will happen, but you owe it to yourself and your future children to make sure that you'll be taken care of.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:27 am 1215574067
I personally didn't have a prenup because my spouse and I met at 18/19 and came into the marriage as equals (with absolutely nothing. LOL). Our families are pretty equal. Our earnings were always equal when we both worked. So basically they thoughts never crossed our mind; no point in our case.
But now that I have assets to my name, I would rethink that seriously, if I were to remarry. In fact I am not sure if I would want to marry again without a prenup. The playing field has changed MUCH.
My sister married very young, but probably should have gotten one. Both times.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:35 am 1215574529
I'm not being over generous even if he did make big money. During my following him around time I got a masters degree, and if we were just settled down in one spot, we would be each working full time and I wouldnt have gotten the degree. So I feel that helping him with his dream, he also helped me by providing a lifestyle where I could get the degree.
I feel very self sufficient and would be fine without his money even if he was making big money. But it would be different if there were kids involved, which is why I dont think pre-nups are for everyone.
And avens~ I think Baseball boy is the same as your husband, and would want to just give me whatever it took to end the problem, but like frugaltexan says, "people change in an instant" even people you know inside and out.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:51 am 1215575513
July 9th, 2008 at 06:33 am 1215581618
July 9th, 2008 at 01:45 pm 1215607550
My wife and I never had a prenup. We entered the marriage with no children and a similar amount of assets. I have always out earned her by double. If we had gotten a divorce, we would have left with what we had going into the marriage.
Since we have been married I have doubled my income and tripled my retirement accounts. My understanding is that these additional assets would not be covered by a prenup. Especially since we have kids and she doesn’t work.
If you don’t have a lot of assets (by a lot I mean a million plus) or have kids, I won’t get a prenup because you have nothing to protect. If you are getting a prenup over a couple of hundred grand, you probably should take a step back and reevaluate getting married.
I would recommend you concentrate more on the leading factors of a divorce, mainly poor communication, financial problems, lack of commitment to the marriage, infidelity, and differences in priorities.
I guess I just don’t know what you would be protecting in a prenup.
July 9th, 2008 at 02:43 pm 1215611036
July 9th, 2008 at 03:33 pm 1215613992
July 9th, 2008 at 04:04 pm 1215615863
We don't have a pre-nup. Why? Because neither of us brought any assets into the marriage and neither of us had any children of our own prior to the marriage, so there was nothing to protect.
I think prenups are something to think about when there are assets and/or kids prior to the marriage because then there is something to protect.
Is a prenup planning for the marriage to fail? One could look at it that way, but the simple fact is that many marriages do end in divorce. I see nothing wrong with both partners putting some rules in place to proctect themselves.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:10 pm 1215616238
That said, my husband and I do not have one because there was nothing to protect. Having met in college, we were both broke.
July 9th, 2008 at 04:14 pm 1215616477
At best, they will greatly simplify things. At worst, well, they may be invalid or subject to legal battles. But if things are going to swing towards the worst, I believe having a pre-nup will still help, not hinder the process, because at least something is written down rather than having it all up in the air, resulting in even uglier legal battles.
I think you're very wise to give this issue serious consideration. I think you're very wise for not letting arrogance get the better of you. I think you should do it. You can always change the terms of the pre-nup (or remove it completely) later.
July 10th, 2008 at 01:03 am 1215648189
It can also state something along the lines of: if a divorce happens we agree to be adults and to split all assets in the marriage equally.
A friend got one when she married and her had funny parts to it too: She promises to make his favorite milk shake the third Sunday of the month (or something like that). He promises not to complain longer than 1 minute when they are late leaving the house and he can't sulk. They both promise not to spend more than 1k a year on certain activities (he likes hunting and all that entails she like to shop for Christmas present year round) etc. so a prenup can also spell out how to live your life as a married couple not just what happens if a divorce happens.
They can also spell out how you would help a family member or care for an aging adult. What kinds of care they expect for each other for future medical issues etc.
Marriage is not just some social contract; there are financial and legal implications as well. Plan how you like.
Will I have one? I don't know.
Great topic!
July 10th, 2008 at 01:48 am 1215650909
July 10th, 2008 at 05:03 am 1215662604
Your baseball "boy" isn't ready for a job,a house,a discussion,a future,responsibility,accountability.
And,the majors aren't rushing to sign him
WHY rush into a wedding w/a "child" who still depends on you and his daddy to support him? But if for some reason you must marry him, by all means, get that pre-nup FIRST.
Right now,YOU have the earning potential,so you owe it to yourself to protect yourself.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:42 am 1215733365
I know that having a pre-nup feels counterintuitive but life insurance has the same effect too but it is a necessary instrument that helps us protect our loved ones.
A prenup protects you both if you are ever in a postiton where emotions and not logic rules.
Having said that I wish you the best and hope your prenup is never activated.
July 18th, 2008 at 08:43 am 1216367001
My DH and I have a prenup because ours is a second marriage and I had more assets than he did. It was more about insuring what would be fair to our children and not at all about thinking we might get divorced. Along with developing the prenup, we established two trusts: one is the "(my name) Sole and Separate Property Trust" and the other is our Community Property Trust.
The first time I married I was 19 and we had very little assets, so we never even thought about a prenup. However, during that marriage, my parents died and I inherited a fairly large sum of money. My ex got 50% of everything so I wish someone had advised me to get a prenup with first husband. I made the mistake of co-mingling my inheritance and using some of it to fund his business, so it was useless to try to get sorted out.
July 18th, 2008 at 05:21 pm 1216398119
July 24th, 2008 at 08:49 am 1216885748
that being said, there are other documents that can be drawn up. even now, as we prepare to buy property together, i think it is only fair to draw up a legal document that states that BF is contributing 2/3 of the costs of repayments and I only one third. because i love him, and i would never ever want to hurt him, and i can't bear to think of such a thing as us parting ways, but like you said, it's the If Factor, and that's why these things are done in the first place.